Monday, April 9, 2007

UPA and the Worlds' Elite Teams

Given that other elite Ultimate teams from other countries (Japan, Australia, Great Britain) want to play in UPA Championships, what should the UPA do?

Please review the findings for this topic before engaging in discussion.

7 comments:

Unknown said...

My suggestion would be to move to a true Open championship held in the US exclusively*.
* - US teams would never be forced to play in other countries, but there could be qualifying events held in other countries.

Use the US Open (golf) as a model. The event is always in the United States. There are sectional and regional qualifiers each year, each held in the US. Players are welcome to participate at any qualifier they want to, limited to one qualifier that they register for well ahead of time. The number of qualifying spots for each qualifier is determined ahead of time and is based on strength.

There are two optional additional methods of qualification, applying this to ulimate. One is to grant exemptions from sectional or regional qualifying based on other performance criteria from the past year (previous year's Nationals, current year performance (although this last would be hard to do because of the lack of roster certification at non-UPA events)). The other is to hold regional qualifying events in other countries and give the winner or top x finishers spots at Nationals, replacing some of the wildcards given to US regions. For example, the top finisher at European championships and the top finisher at Pan-Asian championship are given spots to Nationals.

Also, remove all geography requirements from US teams. You can play in any sectional event you want, but you risk having other strong teams showing up at that event, too, if you're trying to find an easy way to qualify.

Sam Tobin-Hochstadt said...

One comment about "in the US exclusively". As far as I know, every not-in-the-US series event has been held in Vancouver. So what you're suggesting is basically that Wash/BC sectionals no longer be held in Vancouver, nor should NW regionals be held there. I think this would make these events harder to organize, and, paradoxically, be worse for the players right across the border. For example, more regionals would probably be held in the SF Bay Area, which is much further from Seattle than Vancouver is.

Now, should we have regionals in Tokyo? Clearly not. But I think we should recognize that some places are closer than others.

Anonymous said...

Let me add to Jim's idea that if the governing bodies from other countries were able to determine the team that would get into the US Open, it would strengthen those organizations which would be good for growth of the sport.

You'd have something a lot like Worlds in that countries would host their own national championship to determine who gets to represent them. The difference would be that they'd earn a spot at the US Open instead of Worlds. It could be done in the off-worlds years so as not to conflict with Worlds.

The Mexican governing body MFDF has specifically asked that we require Mexican teams that participate in the US series to be MFDF members. It would strengthen MFDF and allow them to do more to grow the sport in Mexico. So if we treat Mexico as a "region" and give them a spot at the "US Open" then we help grow the sport in Mexico at the same time that we simplify the border issue.

This model could be extended to countries not contiguous with the US. It's a fairly straightforward model which is good, it would help grow Ultimate around the world which is good, and it would add strength and interest to our "Nationals" which is good.

andy said...

Just add and "A" to the end of "UPA" to produce:
"Ultimate Players Association of America"

Other countries can create their own Ultimate Frisbee organizations. Of course, if they need help, we could give them a little push, but we should still keep the current UPA to ourselves for now.

Also, I want to see Ultimate Frisbee become part of the olympics eventually; If this requires a seperate international Ultimate Frisbee organization, then so be it.

JoeSeidler said...

I think Parinella's suggestion is impractical. Unlike golf, there is no money in Ultimate and teams from distant countries cannot afford to attend Sectionals, Regionals and Nationals... except for Canadian and Mexican teams. His exemption alternatives are too prone to lack of consistency to be fair IMO.

Wouldn't it be better to have an all US championship and add a new tournament 3-4 weeks later (late November) like a US Ultimate Open every year that Worlds is not held?

If we cannot determine a US champion, how do we determine who goes to Worlds representing the US?

Unknown said...

Right off the bat, I can understand not liking Jim’s idea in regards to the US Open model, but after re-reading it does make some sense. I like the idea because it expands the number of qualifiers.

What I do think is missing in Jim’s vision is that the UPA series is not just about the elite teams winning it all (ie. exemptions etc.). Don’t mistake what I just wrote. Winning the UPA Championships is the pinnacle of the sport of ultimate, worldwide. What I am referring to, is that, the UPA series is the “only” way for all UPA members and teams to have a shot at the Championship title. The UPA series is the only tournament out there right now that does not separate the elite teams from the rest. (most Tournament formats have spiraled out of control in regards to elite pools and the “rest”). The UPA series model is geographical in nature because it is the easiest way to logistically manage the 2 month event (so… I am also against Jim’s concept teams being allowed to play in other sections).

In regards to the worlds elite, I say the more the merrier! Canada rocks! Keep them in. If a Mexican wants in, attach them to or make a new section and when they have a certain number of teams increase the number of sections or make a new region. The same model could hold true for European, Australian and Asian teams. There’s plenty of space in the current series format to expand the series. Just use common sense.

In regards to determining a US Champion – well it’s the highest finishing team in the UPA series located from a geographic section in the USA – big deal if they finished second in the UPA (maybe run a few more stairs…). Canada and Mexico may want to use the UPA series to determine their champions as well. It’s difficult to run so many National level tournaments in the present state of recreational play.

John said...

Until we can develop a better system, going global will be a horrible idea. Ultimate Frisbee is much more organized than I had previously thought, however it's still no where near the level it needs to be, let alone trying to engaging in world organizations. Try to get more media coverage, more age groups involved (both older and younger) and try to get more funding.