To what extent do you want the UPA to strive to become a member of State High School Federations, NCAA, and other "credible" organizing bodies. What are you willing to give up?
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I am not very familiar with how the NCAA or any state HS athletic programs work, but I think that before the UPA became officially involved or part of these organizations, a lot of study would be needed to know what changes they would demand from the Ultimate rules and structure. However, communication between the UPA and these official bodies is absolutely necessary so we can know for sure what we would be looking into. I don't know how much the UPA is already doing some of this (if any), but IMO it needs to start now. Let's at least make our presence known to these other governing bodies.
I think it would be more appropriate to go ahead and get on the good graces of as many high school federations as possible.
I actually disagree with you here. I was in contact with Kyle Weisbrod a while back, and tried to get in touch with the NJSIAA, and came to the conclusion that I prefered the autonomy that my team had to the regulation that comes with those governing bodies. My high school Ultimate team made the transition from being an after-school club to a Varsity "activity" (like cheerleading or band), which seemed to be the best of both worlds. We got funding, transportation to nearby tournaments, field space, a paid coach (who had significant experience with Ultimate, luckily), and (I believe) insurance from the school.
We didn't, however, have some of the restrictions that full varsity-sport status would have burdened us with. For instance, varsity sports are only allowed to practice for one season out of the year, but we got both fall and spring to practice and attend games/tournaments. I know the NCAA regulates the number of players, practices, and games a team is allowed to have, among other restrictions (talking to professional recruiters, etc). Granted, we might not have all of these problems were we to develop a relationship with the NCAA, but my point is the sport is not ready for this kind of exploration. Our numbers are too small, our foundation too insecure, our cohesion uncertain, and our future in the air. Think of Ultimate like a teenager--we need a little time to figure out who we are, what our direction in life is, before we go marrying ourselves to somebody who will change us forever.
Those are fair enough points and good analogies. So are you saying that we are getting ahead of ourselves by talking about NCAA et al this early, or are you saying that we should not go that route at all?
I suppose if we did go that far at some point, we would have to give up some of the freedoms Ultimate players have enjoyed so far. Thinking about that, it would kind of suck to only be able to officially practice or play within a limited season/number of occasions.
Say we get the numbers, cohesion, and security that we are currently lacking, would you still say the same thing or propose a bigger next step?
When we get those things, we will then be in a position to reevaluate our direction as a community again, just like we are doing now. We would probably have a "second revolution" and look at whether it was feasible and desirable to move into other governing bodies. I predict, however, that if we get it right this time, and the UPA grows as a governing body that can respond to the continuing needs of its constituents, then we won't need the guidance and regulation of the NCAA or interscholastic athletics associations. We started out as a fringe sport, but I think that even if we become mainstream we can retain our "differentness" and be nonetheless successful. There is definitely a market for what Ultimate is selling.
I feel that there is a lot of potential working with the NCAA to increase recognition of Ultimate. The NCAA and UPA have a number of concurrent goals; such as promoting student-athletes, keeping up the image of their sports, and expanding the reach of sports.
There is a lot of potential in that relationship. I can't imagine Ultimate growing to be a vibrant and respected college sport without the involvement of the NCAA.
In high school sports, however, I feel that the national UPA organization is much better suited to promoting the sport than state agencies.
Whether or not the UPA partners with these organizations, the sport will need to impose some self governing as far as recruiting guidelines, amount of practices and size of teams. While we may view these as restrictive, they're really there for the protection of the sport and the players. They're absolutely necessary. Why not look at what other organizations have already established?
I don't know if this is the appropriate place, but the "Credible Governing Body" I would most like to see recognize the UPA is the Olympics. I feel that ultimate is a sport that fits well with the ideals of the olympics and that already has a strong international appeal.
Recognition by Credible Governing Bodies will be required at some level for the sport to gain greater mainstream participation, thus it's a very important thing to pursue.
Rocksteadyg is correct to point out that many of the rules established by these governing bodies are to protect the players and sport. Do you know that Cheering is not part of these sports federations but it has the highest injury rate of any high school sport? (I don't think there are many injuries in marching band, however.)
The one-season limitation can be creatively overcome. Note how running has three seasons: cross county in the fall, indoor track in the winter, and then outdoor track in the spring. Ultimate might play co-ed in the fall, then male/female teams in the spring. Some rules might be less amenable to ultimate, but unless they can be proven to hinder the growth of the sport or essence or the game, then do they really matter?
Maintaining independence is a good choice if we want to preserve ultimate as we know, but if we really want to sport to grow into the mainstream, then we'll need to make some other choices.
Bruce, having fall mixed and single-gender spring is a pretty good idea, but what about competitive single-gender teams who want/need two full seasons? I like playing mixed, but I wouldn't want my options to be limited in this way. Two full seasons is something I am not willing to concede (I realize this is not the "concessions" forum).
rocksteadyg: I agree that the Olympics would be a great venue for Ultimate. Spirited, friendly competition for the sake of the sport and athletes everywhere is what the Olympics are supposed to be about, and Ultimate represents that quite well.
Bruce: I actually had my share of marching band injuries back in college (mostly involving beer).
gapoole: The dilemma with the NCAA regulating the seasons and thus limiting real playing time is an interesting one I hadn't thought of. I still think the NCAA is an inevitable need, but your point is valid and will definitely hurt a lot of Ultimate players and what they love: playing multiple seasons and tournaments all year. I like Bruce's analogy with the different track seasons, but are there other ways to ensure that we don't lose too much playing time?
Part of the reason the NCAA limits practice time is that the teams practice every day for long hours. In college, my team averaged about 9 hours of practice a week. If you bump that up to 18/20 hours of practice, not to mention seperate weight training, film and conditioning, you'll find that you're able to compress quite a bit of field time into a single season.
I'm assuming that working with the NCAA would also include an increased number of playing opportunities for teams, with 2-5 games per week.
I predict, however, that if we get it right this time, and the UPA grows as a governing body that can respond to the continuing needs of its constituents, then we won't need the guidance and regulation of the NCAA or interscholastic athletics associations. We started out as a fringe sport, but I think that even if we become mainstream we can retain our "differentness" and be nonetheless successful. There is definitely a market for what Ultimate is selling.
I completely agree! We aren't other sports. We like playing all year. We have SOTG. I think we can be strong and autonomous with our differences and let everyone else get used to them.
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