Monday, April 9, 2007

Co-existence of Self-officiated and Officiated Play

Can self-officiated Ultimate and officiated Ultimate co-exist?

Please review the findings for this topic before engaging in discussion.

7 comments:

Greg Tripp said...

As much as I would hate to see it, I think we should discuss the possibility of Officiated Play co=existing with Self-officiated play.

I don't have anything against officials in other sports (I referee soccer and basketball). Still, I would like to see ultimate remain "pure," simply because I like the idea of a sport having that ingrained sense of honor.

However, if ultimate does move to officials, I would like to see it done right.

I believe Officials (in ultimate) should have 3 goals: 1) Protect the players from unsafe conditions and play. 2) Control the pace and style of the game by preventing arguing, disrespect and unfair play. 3) Make calls and enforce penalties with the goal of continuing play as it would have continued if no foul had occurred.

I won't discuss it now, but I'm interested in hearing how people imagine it would work to have officiated versus unofficiated tournaments within the college/club series...

gapoole said...

I think it is fair and true to say that if we think we might move in that directly, it's a good idea to "do it right". I like those three goals, and they seem to fall in line with SOTG as much as one could expect from refereed Ultimate. 1 is pretty obvious, 2 is common to many sports, but 3 seems vaguely unique. It seems like we'd get a lot of "do-overs" though, because assigning penalty-yards is dumb. Or, at least, not applicable to Ultimate.

What did you think of the MLU?

BVH said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

If Ultimate moves into the realm of refrees it will become just another sport. One of the things that drew me, and many others i know, to the game is that those playing are supposed to have the integrity to call it amongst themselves. We all have had those expereinces where the call seems wrong or unfair, but that's part of the game, and everyone knows those teams that do it more than others.

I also feel, and i hate to say it, that adding referees in any capacity is just a slippery slope. It starts with calling whether or not you were inbounds and then it becomes fouls, picks, unnecessary roughness, or poor spirit calls that dictate a game. In the end, refs will make it just another sport and destroy the Spirit that should be inherent.

BVH said...

I'm a fan of the observer system. The burden of responsibility is still on individual players to play fairly and make the right call, yet there is also a safeguard against both intentional cheating and the "in-the-heat-of-the-moment" irrationality that can happen when the stakes are high.

The only compelling argument I've heard for having active-call referees (rather than arbitrating observers) boils down to "legitimacy" and marketability. Ultimate will only be taken seriously as a spectator sport, the argument goes, if there are referees.

I have three questions, then, for anyone who supports referees in ultimate:

1. Is there anything else we gain from having active-call referees (rather than arbitrating observers), other than "legitimacy"/marketability?

2. If the central concern, referee-wise, is a matter of external perception and marketing, then why not just give observers zebra stripes and call them "referees"?

3. If the central concern, referee-wise, is making the game more spectator-friendly, then can that same goal be met by expanding the powers of observers (to impose strict time limits, for example) -- i.e., in ways that do not take the primary responsibility for fair play away from the players?

Sam Auciello said...

The only reason I can think of to add a ref is for an event like the Olympics where it's required that there be an impartial judge. In this case the ref could be a more honorary position than one of power. He/She could wait for the players to make a call and then repeat/record it officially. We would still be self officiated but with an impartial judge watching. Am I crazy? Would this work?

Unknown said...

It is my belief that using officials (specifically referees) to speed up games or help control the flow of the game has not helped other sports, and only gives teams another tool to slow down the game. The notable example being the last three minutes of a basketball game. Having referees and is not going to elimnate the "professional foul" which in my mind is GROSS infraction and undoubteldy against the spirit of the game.